By Bradley Smith
You have been involved with designing a lot of logos and albums. Can you take us through the creative process from an artistic perspective? What sort of input do you normally take from the client/band?
Well, to get things started I prefer that the band members make me a list with all kinds of info, preferably keywords like colors, objects, places, their favorite album covers, favorite photographers or artists; anything they feel might have some sort of connection to what they do. It’s important for me to know how they view their own music, to know what they want to express. Then I do a lot of research, listen to the music and read the lyrics thoroughly to try to squeeze ideas from them, looking trough art books, going for walks, taking photos, visiting the library. I then start working either by hand or on computer, drawing, arranging photo shoots etc. When I got some sketches that look good, I mail a selection to the artist so they can give me feedback, and it goes back and forth like that until it’s finished. It takes a lot more work than it might seem like. Especially if you take it as seriously as I do. Of course sometimes photos or illustrations are done and decided upon beforehand, which makes it a more typical layout assignment. But the best results tend to come when we are in charge of the whole process, from the first ideas to the finished product.
Regarding logos I have ideas and sketches, but it’s actually Trine who realizes them most of the time, after sketches and ideas from the both of us. The creative process is mostly the same as mentioned above. In contrast to what many people seem to think I am much more of an illustrator than a graphic designer in the ordinary sense of the term. I work with images; come up with ideas and make pictures.
It seems Trine and you have very complimentary styles. How did you first meet and begin your artistic collaboration? I see Trine also won the Coke Light competition there in Norway. Did you help at all with that?
We met at the graphic design school we both attended; we’ve been together for 5 years now. She has helped me out since I did my first album cover in 2000/2001, but we didn’t become “Trine and Kim” until she quit her stinking job as a designer in some amateurish lowlife commercial agency one and a half years ago and we bought our domain www.trineogkim.no last spring. Since then I think our diversity and the quality of our work has increased considerably.
We always work together, sometime splitting the work 90/10, sometimes vice versa, sometimes 50/50. Often I do the illustrations, take photos and work with them according to my ideas before we move the material over to Trines computer and finish it there; selecting the best sketches, doing the typography etc. This is some of the reason why the cooperation between Trine and me is so great; as long as we work together we can do all kinds of design assignments, from primal Black Metal covers to corporate profiling for food store chains. On our own we both would have a bit more limitations, naturally.
Oh, and no, I didn’t help with the coke design at all :)
Your website is sooooo comprehensive when it comes to displaying your art design for a project. Do you and Trine do your own webmastering or do you leave that up to someone else?
That’s all Trine. I’m not interested enough I guess. It’s too much programming, too little playing around. Besides, I need to have a finished product in my hand, the feeling of being done with something, and move on. Websites are never done, they just need work for ever and ever and ever and have to look good and work on a bunch of browsers. What a nightmare!
Who are some of your contemporaries that you admire? Who has influenced your art direction and style if anyone has at all? Did you have any formal schooling for this?
Well, like most people doing illustrations or design I have been drawing since I was a little kid. My father is a painter and graphic artist (woodcuts and etchings), and as a child I used to sit on the floor of his atelier and draw for hours. You know, I was the skinny kid in the back row in the class room filling my school books with drawings or staring out the window. My mother is a choreographer, so because of her and my father’s profession I used to be dragged around to a lot of art exhibitions and modern ballet performances. It’s an unexplainable urge I guess, to do this kind of work. It’s too simple to blame it on my parents and my childhood environment, but it has obviously made it easier to choose this way of life, although I know my parents would be even happier if I chose to have exhibitions and be “an artist”.
After the normal art courses at junior high I had three years of normal art school from 94 to 97. Then one year for a writer's course in Lillehammer to improve my lyrics before I moved back to Oslo and took two years in the graphic design school where I met Trine. I finished there in spring 2000. Since then I haven’t gone to any schools, though an education in photography would be desirable since an increasingly amount of my work is based upon photography.
I’m not that entranced by designers really, I’m much more into photographers and painters. Those are my true inspiration, but I have no fan hierarchy.
I like the people who know what they are doing and are skilled and original both concerning the handcraft of their work but also the ideas.
At the end of the day I guess music is my main inspiration. My mother used to work at home, which meant a daily bombardment of avant-garde music since I was a kid. And being a boy listening to “lowbrow” music like Anthrax, Iron Maiden and Mötley Crüe while being dragged around by parents attending “high brow” galleries and performances might have been more important for me than I have given it credit for. Most of my childhood (which means the 80’s) I was into macho music like metal and rap, while my father was into jazz and opera and my mother was into contemporary classical, avant-garde, ethnic/world music etc.
Regarding Trine her parents luckily realized her potential early on and had her go to art school from she was 12 years old, and she continued that path until she was 22. After school she worked 3 years as a designer at a commercial bureau. Then we started as “Trine and Kim”.
You have a lot (and I mean A LOT) of musical outlets for your creative juices as well as your art. Can you tell us about some of them and some of the concepts behind their musical direction? Don’t forget to mention Blitzkrieg Baby or else there will be some disappointed readers. heh heh.
Okay, I’ll do my very best. I guess I would advice most readers to jump to the next question though, because this is going to be a bloody mess.
M.
I started my first real band Taarenes Vaar in 1992 together with three friends.
That line-up only lasted about a year and Mr. Babyflesh (drums) and I continued on our own. In 1994 we fell in love with disharmony and also developed a more doomy approach, distancing ourselves a bit from the Black Metal stuff that we started out with. Later that year I got the Ved Buens Ende demo and they became quite a heavy influence, having brought disharmony in a metal context to a higher level than I had at the time. I was however not into that melancholic vibe like they were, and preferred the music dark and twisted instead of melancholic.
Lots of people have joined the ranks; Sverre (Audiopain) was the vocalist from 1997 to 2000, Petter Berntsen has been the bassist since early 1998, Tommy joined in 1999, also Christian from The Cumshots played with us a while in 1999, Czral played with us the first half of 2000, AiwarikiaR/Erik Olivier Lancelot of Ulver played with us in 2001 and several more people as well. We just never seemed to find the right chemistry with people though, so they’ve all moved on, except Petter (whom is a key member to this day) and Tommy (whom is a periphery member helping out with all sorts of things). Anyway, we’ve been doing our brand of mischief for quite some time now, which is metal with no melodies, no melancholy, and always severely dissonant and destructive. We do what we have done since 1995. Well, we don’t strive towards being avant-garde anymore like I guess we did back then, but people still seem to think M is weird. In the summer of 2002 we started recording what will hopefully be our debut album. Einar Sjursø did the basic drum recordings, which we used to program the drum tracks. Since then we have done guitars and bass. The latest addition was that Czral did drums on all the tracks along with Henning Eidem, a superb jazz/prog drummer. We’re now working on editing the drums, hoping to release it next year. All the songs on the album were made between 1994 and 1998, when we were still called Taarenes Vaar. So to me it’s almost like a celebration of Taarenes Vaars younger days, or my teens to be exact.
It seems we have finally gotten a permanent drummer though, Bjørge from a new band called Rex (www.rexprod.net). We began rehearsing with him this summer and it’s immensely pleasing. The lyrical aspect of M is just as important as the music, and does in my not so humble opinion qualify as real Black Metal lyrics as they are about absolute and total destruction, without morals or humanity, although still have nothing esthetically in common with the genre.
KION:
I’ve always been very ambitious, actually too ambitious for the good of my own health, so sometimes it takes the better of me. I guess you can say KION is the result of a nervous breakdown. Working with Taarenes Vaar through the nineties without really getting anywhere, at least regarding releases, got to me after a while and in early 1999 it just snapped. I’m not really into this for fun; it’s an obsession, something I have to do. KION can be traced quite a while back. In my early teens, right after I got into Black Metal, I started listening my way through my mother’s record collection and got into stuff like Diamanda Galas, Dead Can Dance, Arne Nordheim, Meredith Monk and Eleni Karaindrou and other forms of music. I saw Diamanda Galas live in September 1993, and it is still one of the most devastating concerts I’ve ever been to. In 1994/1995 I got into stuff from Cold Meat Industry, which also had an impact on me. Interests developed further and further away from metal and during 1995 and 1996 Mr. Babyflesh and I were trying to incorporate industrial elements, Meredith Monk style vocals, ambient, death industrial, percussion music and worse into Taarenes Vaar… This was of course light-years ahead of what we were technically capable of going through with, also regarding the studio facilities at the time which still was 8 track tape recorders. So during these years I felt a growing need to expand way beyond the metal boundaries. During a studio visit in early 1999 we (Babyflesh, Petter Berntsen and me) had worked our asses off to rehearse and prepare the recording, to record the songs once and for all, and I just thought it SUCKED, I was so depressed; with the music, with my own abilities, with the others abilities. I only saw limitations, and I realized I had to split the band in two, and let the two ugly siblings crawl in separate directions. So that was the birth of KION. The following year was chaotic; I don’t even think Czral (who took over the drumchair after Babyflesh) knew which band he was playing in because of the turmoil. He played drums with us for 5-6 months in the first part of 2000, but it didn’t work out, so we just stopped rehearsing altogether. We managed to do one studio recording, but it wasn’t finished and was lost unfortunately. Anyway, through playing with us Czral met Petter, who obviously was the missing link to get Virus on its feet.
Two years ago we found this strange character, qERIq, who does the vocals. He works in TV and radio here and has a great voice for providing the spoken words. We’re also trying out a few drummers. As for our band approach it’s centered on long, complex and disharmonic riffs… I don’t want KION to be melodic or melancholic, or static, I want it to flow, and stumble around in dark places. Petter is the perfect bass player, weaving his strange lines into the (lack of) system.
KION is a two faced beast though, with electronic music on one side, and music for bass/drum/guitar/vocal line up on the other. However, we will soon release our debut album which is cold, angstridden music, with no instruments whatsoever. The biggest project though, is our first album with instrument music, which has been in the works since the band started. It’s a nightmare to work on, and the biggest project I’ve begun my whole life. If I survive the process it will be the greatest musical achievement of my life!
Since 1994 I’ve had a Black Metal project as well, to get the incurable love for primitive Black Metal out of my system. The first 5 years Babyflesh did the drums. We did recordings in 1996 and 1998, but since then it’s been quiet. I’ve written material all the time though, and will record it in Fias Co. Studios when the time is right. I just need to find the right people to work with.
BLITZKRIEG BABY:
It’s my “ready made” project in a way, the only place where I steal other people’s music; sample whatever I feel like. It’s my cheesy bastard child. I have well over an album worth of recorded material but I have decided to put it on ice for a while, until we have come a bit further with M and KION.
APHRODISIAC is Zweizz and me. The band started in 1996 and was originally Zweizz and Mr.Fixit of DHG. We’ve got an album almost done, but we’re not satisfied with it yet, and both of us are so busy doing other things that we never seem to be able to get together to work on it. When we meet we end up taking a walk and talking instead. Maybe it will remain unreleased. I’ve also done music for two short ballets. And I was commissioned to do music for a short art movie, but it was never finished because the director was injured in an accident. Most of this music may be released one day as one of the projects mentioned above. I know it may seem like a lot of projects, and it is, but it all feels quite natural for me, they all have their own reason d'être. And as of yet I’m not forcing my recordings upon anyone, as opposed to most other people doing music. I don’t even know if Aphro, Blitzkrieg baby or my BM project ever will release anything, maybe I’ll just keep it to myself and my friends.
Since you are in so many bands what types of instruments do you play? Would you like to consolidate them all on one label if they all get signed or do you think that variety is the key?
Guitar is my main instrument, though I have never really looked upon myself as a guitarist. I haven’t practiced technique for one second all my life, and to this day I have never taught myself a cover song for example. I couldn’t play a normal chord if my life depended on it. Also the computer has become increasingly important the last 3 years finally giving me the opportunity to realize many of the ideas I’ve carried with me the last 10 years or so. As for labels I’m open to anything. I haven’t really sent around my music for many years so I have no clue what labels might think of it.
I will cooperate with Vendlus Records on something soon, but that’s about it. Head Not Found wanted to sign M in 1996 (when we were still called Taarenes Vaar), but nothing came out of it. In retrospect this was a good thing though, as we weren’t mature enough to record an album, and for me it would have been a pain in the ass listening to it now. Except for two cassette demos in 1996 and 1997 (which was too revealing concerning our limitations as musicians and composers), we just never came as far as actually releasing anything. They both got rather good reviews though, in Metal Shuffle and Scream, the Norwegian Metal press at the time. But in my eyes I haven’t made my debut as a “musician” yet. A few guest appearances here and there or a couple of cassette demos as a 17-18 year old isn’t really a proper debut the way I see it. I have lurked and worked in the underground for well over 10 years, so when I first take the step to bother innocent people with my music it better be good. There’s enough garbage out there as it is.
Talking about labels I guess I could tell you that I’m starting my own little label, first of all to release my own music in relatively limited copies with hand made covers. I like special editions; it adds the feeling of owning something unique. It rubs off on the music as well I think. Album covers have always colored the music for me, which I guess explains why I’m such a cover fanatic.
Anyway, if I pull off this label I hope to release the albums in cooperation with other labels. If I had a budget to work from I would most definitely try to release other peoples music as well. There are quite a few, maybe 5-6 Norwegian acts I probably would approach, most of them people I already know, and everyone relating to the metal scene in one way or another, but not doing ordinary metal, or metal at all, and remaining true to THE FEELING. You know, during 1994-95 Black Metal developed into something else than what originally got me (and many others also I presume) interested in it. It wasn’t conveying the same FEELING anymore, it was becoming increasingly impotent and uniformed, there were millions of bands popping up and they got slicker and more produced and the gap that separated Black Metal from other forms of metal was quickly filled with crap. To me this made Black Metal become just another form of shallow fetish readymade lifestyle with custom stores to buy your custom wannabe outsider clothes. They dress the same; have the same opinions, wear the same jewelry, love and hate the same music, even vote for the same political candidates. It’s so uniformed and booooring, there’s no rebellion in it whatsoever! I can’t understand how people whom get into the Black Metal done nowadays can honestly believe they are doing anything original or controversial, there are so many people into it; it’s like Evanescence, it’s shallow pop music, it’s uniformed, conformed, following the wrong recipes.
What attracted me to Black Metal in junior high besides the obvious mystery and extremity was that all the bands I heard were different from each other, all doing their very own thing. The few demos and albums that came out were all radically different and genuine, I mean Darkthrone, Burzum and a few more all sounded so different from each other, they invented their own formulas, they had character and FEELING.
Then Black Metal started to disappoint me, and have done so ever since. Albums widely perceived as classics never really felt right to me. Darkthrone's unholy trinity, the first Burzum albums, those were the albums that for me changed music forever.
When Black Metal faded into shallow kitsch, I believe that the true torch was carried onwards by the more experimental bands, those who actually tried to make something of their own instead of rimming their heroes.
The Norwegian weirdness that bloomed in 1994-1996 died just as fast as it was born. People just didn’t get into it, so we felt very much alone doing disharmonic metal, and at that time we only knew about Ved Buens Ende, Voivod and of course the distant echo of Thorns doing similar metal. And I also heard that Fleurety was developing into something unique as well.
Misanthropy Records helped keeping the torch burning for a little while, and then it went dead quiet. A few years down the line occasional flashbacks did occur of course, with Voivod's “Phobos”, DHG's “666” (whom I never got into) and Fleurety's “Department of Apocalyptic Affairs”. Although I continued doing this form of Heavy Metal myself; I soon left most metal for dead I guess, instead continuing to investigate music far outside the boundaries of metal, where THE FEELING was still present. As for metal I still stuck to the old masters of course, like Darkthrone, Autopsy, Celtic Frost, Morbid Angel, and hoped for better times. When I heard Darkthrone's latest album last spring it was immensely fulfilling, they have really captured the old delightful FEELING again, and it proved to me that there’s still room for real Black Metal. Primal and primitive is not the synonyms to stupid, boring rat piss.
Ok, I’ll try to get to the point here. What I’m trying to say here is that it’s just recently that new bands have been popping up and showing that Norway has promising weirdo stuff going on now, like Zweizz, Rex, Organ:, Virus and Denture.
When I realized this earlier this year I had an idea to compile an album worth of bands working in the more exotic and expressionistic realms of metal. Some of the bands are still quite new, and probably haven’t really found their “sound” yet, but everyone is delightfully promising. It’s cool that all the contributions are going to be totally fresh and unreleased. The normal metal head will definitely loathe it; none of the bands are especially melodic or catchy or brutal, there’s no vampire goth outfits, no baggy pants; just all this kinky weirdness in a full metal jacket. I’ve also asked a few old timers to make something exclusive; I want this to be a jewel for the people who are open for this kind of music. I hope people who miss old Thorns, Ved Buens Ende and Voivod will ejaculate while listening to this album. Not because the bands are rip offs, but because they are trying to accomplish something genuine, personal and true, but still within or at the very least relating to a metal context.
I mean, there is different music out there that has the same kinky, destructive energy that good metal has, like good industrial, electronica, avant-garde, even some far out jazz… why is it such a sacrilege to merge styles like that into metal? To my ears it’s much more blasphemous towards the Heavy Metal Spirit to play bubblegum pop with blast beats and growling vocals! People say they’re into extreme music but if a band skips minor and major chord progressions and turn disharmonic the audience suddenly wimp out, how extreme is that?!? The music isn’t extreme just because you have blast beats when the guitars are playing Hits for Kids tunes!!
Oh well, releasing this compilation is my contribution to the oppositional metal forces. Luckily I convinced the glorious Vendlus Records join in, so at this point it looks like it's going to be a joint release.
You did the cover for your own project Virus. Will you ever have someone else do the cover art for a band you are in? Do you think anyone else would be capable of capturing the visual images you would associate with your music?
Virus isn’t my project. Virus is Czral, Einar Sjursø and the ever glorious bierdo Petter “Plenum” Berntsen. I was originally just going to do the cover, and did that way back in January 2001. Czral had all these weird ideas as usual, but I just did my own stuff, and I got into this theme with dogs because one of the lyrics mentioned dogs. Czral said all the lyrics were about cars, so I had to have a few of those as well. I got relatively involved in the whole process; the lead guitar and bass was recorded in the studio I own together with Petter Berntsen and Mr. Babyflesh. Later Czral wanted me to help him finish some of the songs by remixing them and/or adding sounds and electronics, whatever I found suitable. Luckily the idea was dropped when he finally got his act together and finished the vocals. Still, in the summer of 2003 I had done a few rough sketches just for fun, including remixed Virus material and reworking of improvisations Zweizz and I had done a couple of years earlier. I played them for Einar and he wanted to use parts of it for the Virus album, but without the rhythms and melodies I had made, so I stripped it down to the background sounds, gave them doggy titles and handed it over to him, without actually working them into the songs or anything. They have asked me to do something on the upcoming Virus album as well, which by the way seems to become a gloomier affair, but this time it will be worked into the songs, so it will work much better.
No one shall do covers for my projects but Trine and me, ever! That’s the whole reason I began on that design school back in 98 actually, to do my own covers.
What kind of projects do you like to work with? Your library of work is so varied so I wonder how you choose what you are going to do. I imagine there is a lot of demand for your abilities. Which design are you most proud of?
Speaking for both Trine and myself, we would like to work with more of everything; from food store chains to punk to law firms to hot dog stands to country album covers. And we need more commercial assignments of course, the bigger the better. Personally I would love to do more Black Metal covers too. The demand for our services isn’t that great unfortunately, people are very stuck; they spend thousands of dollars on recording etc, but when it comes to the design they do it in Photoshop, which in my world should be illegal and punishable by slow and entertaining death.
Honestly I don’t know which work I am most satisfied with… There’s often something getting in the way, like errors from the printing office, labels messing around with our work after we have finished it and so on. We put a lot of work into what we do.
Printing offices or labels messing around with my work after I have finished it is a nightmare; I’m totally allergic to that! It’s disrespectful towards the designer and the handcraft, and what people see in the final product that has my name written on it isn’t really my work, it’s been sabotaged. It’s like a band that has recorded and mixed their album, and when it comes from the press plant they find out that the record company has written new lyrics, replaced the vocals and put guitar solos on all the songs, everything without informing the band. Do you get my point?
What is the most recognizable of the projects you have worked on? I know you have done several designs for Mute Magazine. What other big name clients have you had? Would you prefer to stay mostly in the underground or do you aspire to have lots of mainstream contracts?
We do assignments for firms, which is mainly Trines work. I would prefer us to do both commerce and “art”, underground and mainstream. We can take on most kinds of clients; from the smallest band to big firms, no limitations in either ends of the spectrum. The problem is getting them to try us out; most people are stuck, boring cowards, which is clearly reflected in their company profiles and in the way they handle their everyday business. We are doing quite a few album covers this year, including 3 Ulver albums, the DHG album, Vesen, Malice In Wonderland, V28, Solefald (two rereleases), Anthony Curtis, Code, Aphelion, Babyflesh and more. We have also done issue 13 of Mute now which is our third issue as art directors and designers. It’s mostly Trine who does the layout work on Mute. I run around in meetings, picking up photos, making phone calls, harassing slow contributors. There’s so much work on designing a 100 page magazine during one single week that it takes about 24 hours a day just taking care of everything else besides the layout.
You have done several covers for rereleases like Ved Buens Ende and Fluerety. Do you think you have improved upon the original designs? How do you approach doing a cover for something that has already been done? Is there any intimidation there that you might be screwing it up or that some people will hate it because it is not the original piece that graced the cover?
Those covers were all typical of their time, like most bands at the time they used whatever they had available which meant they didn’t have a designer or anyone to actually make it look good. So yeah, I think I improved the original designs. I guess I might come off disrespectful to some, but then again I guess I can be sometimes. I know a few people hate the Ved Buens Ende cover, but that’s ok, we can’t please everyone. Kris asked me to redesign the Aspera Hiems Symfonia cover, and then Zweizz wanted me to redesign Min tid skal komme. And when I heard Ved Buens Ende also was to be re-released I knew that they didn’t have any of the original files or anything, so either they would have to scan the original cover, which would have resulted in a catastrophe, or make a new one. So I did that one as well.
Unfortunately someone fucked up the typography and the colors after we sent them away, which is a typical problem when labels want to receive the InDesign files instead of settling with safe PDF files. Therefore those covers are disfigured babies of what Trine and I originally made. It’s so sad and annoying when that happens to our work. Like most other people I’m most exited about the work we’re doing now. Both the DHG cover, the Anthony Curtis cover and the next ordinary full length from Ulver are looking very promising I think.
How do you feel about the lack of credit that designers get in the success of a project/album that they are associated with? Do you think that there are designers out there that get waaaaaay too much credit for low quality work?
Obviously I think it should be more focus on the designer than it is now. But more importantly I wish people would acknowledge us in the way that they actually use a professional designer, not just somebody’s amateur friend. Even though the cover is the only visual aspect of a band, it’s really under-valued. I think a certain level of technical competence is a necessity if one wants to make something that is truly good. Take Photoshop for example, I love it, but it’s also the greatest curse of mankind since the black death. Everyone is a “designer” now, just because they have a computer… It really annoys me when people think design is about computers; the computer is only a tool, there is so much more to it than that. Are you a musician just because you own a guitar? Are you a movie director just because you have a video camera?
To work with design or art or any visual media it’s fundamental to have something we in Norway call “formsans”, a sense of proportions and shape, which is the fundament of making any kind of visual work looking good. Without “formsans” you’re doomed to fail as a designer, it’s like trying to make music when you’re deaf. And when people even do the typography in Photoshop it makes me choke. I’m not saying I haven’t done my share of screw-ups by the way… ;)
Anyway, I believe that when it comes to album covers, style and understanding is of key importance. Many designers/illustrators don’t have the right background to do for example metal covers, the results often end up looking wrong, lacking the right attitude. In metal nothing is more important than attitude. I grew up with metal, I started listening to Motley Crue around 1987 or so when I was about 9 years old. So I feel confident that I know what metal is all about. There is so much unfulfilled potential in the metal scene, both in music and design. I mean, the ideas themselves aren’t necessarily the issue here; it’s the execution that sucks the most. The most immature, pubertal idea can by the right person often be interpreted into something quite good, but it takes a lot of work and at least a pinch of talent.
Being underground is by many seen as an excuse to make amateurish rubbish. And I couldn’t disagree more. To me being UNDERGROUND is about having no sense of compromise, about meaning what you do, about having a heartfelt attitude; it’s not about making junk. Many people got that wrong.
I think the album cover is sacred. It’s the first thing you see, the first impression you get from an album. And it’s often a lasting one. I honestly mean that the cover should be just as important as the music. People spend thousands of dollars on instruments, recording, mixing, mastering, they use years to write and rehearse their music. But when it comes to the cover they get some friend to do it because “he likes to fumble around with filters in photoshop” or something. I mean, if the members in a band buy a few albums a week all year, it’s not that many weeks of consumer celibacy until they can afford to have a nice cover on their demo or album. It makes me wonder how much they really care about what they do. People can buy themselves a stereo for 50 000 NOK or spend 5000 NOK at a pub in one single night, but when they’re releasing an album they’ve worked with for years they wont bother to spend anything on getting the cover done properly.
When people approach us with assignments they sometimes think it’s expensive, but we can often work for weeks to get something done and you can bet your teeth that they wouldn’t even work two days for the same amount of money, which means that our hourly payment is quite incredibly low. This is a choice we have made of course; to work with underground artists, which means we won’t be millionaires. People who do this kind of work for free are assholes; they ruin it for those who are doing this as a job, taking it seriously, and delivering high quality products. They are actually undermining the whole profession.
Another thing I find somewhat problematic is that many designers and illustrators have ONE style and one style only. That means that any musician working with them will end up with the same image. We want to avoid that as much as we can. I think it’s important to create something individual for each client. I want to focus on each particular client like individuals and try to build something unique; changing approach and technique. Of course it’s not possible to make everything completely different from one another, but it’s much better to at least strive for that than to deliberately do the same shit over and over again until every cover looks the same. Designers today seem more focused on displaying themselves rather than to do what’s best for the client. I fucking loathe that attitude.
More and more labels have in-house designers as well, which more often than not is a tragedy for their respective artists. The result is no diversity whatsoever and most of the time in-house designers are no good, unfortunately. On the other hand I would love to work on all the releases from a label or two, but I would work very hard to do different solutions for the different artists, which is the opposite of most in-house designers.
Yeah, I think good designers deserve more credit. But it’s often lesser designers that get all the attention. This profession seems to be more about being an asshole and stepping on others; the bigger asshole you are the more work you get. But people who focus all their energy on making top quality all the way and doesn’t have the same talent for selling themselves often end up with much less work. People should give it some thought before they decide to become a designer. Most designers shouldn’t do what they do at all; and I think they end up contaminating the profession. Still, I feel that there’s not a chance I will be able to learn all the things I should. There are many people out there that are better than me, but still, when Trine and I work together I believe we stand strong.
I don’t see great designers as competitors though; I see bad taste, bad designers, and designers working for free, ignorance and amateurs as the only real enemies.
It seems that you are very active with both your art and musical projects. What else occupies your time? Have you traveled the world or have you pretty much stayed at home in Norway?
I’m a workaholic of apocalyptic proportions so I don’t have time for any other hobbies or passions except making music and illustrations. Besides the usual socializing with friends of course, which is recommendable to keep relatively sane. I would like to go out and have a few beers a bit more often than I do though, but it’s so damn expensive here.
Traveling isn’t really my great passion. I’ve been here and there in Europe. I have a few places I would like to visit, but that is a long time into the future, unless someone pays my ticket. I also need to see a lot more of my own country. I’d love to buy myself a laptop, bring my camera and travel up north a few months. But I guess I have to settle with mental safaris these days.
It seems that there is such a focus in Norway on artistic expression whether it be in art or in Music or whatever. Why do you think that is? What do you feel is your contribution to this movement? Do you feel any nationalistic pride because Norway is so strong in this arena? I know some people do.
I don’t see it that way. I think the Norwegian people are as shallow as anyone else, at least when it comes to music, design, art or culture. Most people are into whatever is on the charts. The art movement here in Norway is very elitist. I don’t know that many people into that scene personally but I get to see exhibitions now and then and it’s not much to be proud of. People seem more into the lifestyle of being an “artist” than actually doing the hard labor. You have the usual hypocrite, the “artist” who thinks making art is about drinking wine and wearing the right kind of second hand clothes and from time to time make something that takes 5 minutes and call it installation art or something. I don’t call myself an artist. I am an illustrator. I do what I do and if people think that I am an artist, well, I sure as hell take it as a compliment. The way I see it being an artist is not something you can educate yourself into; you can be an illustrator, a painter, a writer, a choreographer, a sculptor, whatever… But let others decide if you’re worthy the title “artist” or not. At least in the way we use the word here in Norway, it’s kind of polluted I think.
I don’t feel that I contribute to anything except perhaps the music underground.
It seems to an outsider like me that there is such a strong interrelationship between all these different aspects of the music and artistic scenes. Do you agree? What brings you together?
I’ve never really known that many other people around my age doing design or art, just music. Since I was a kid I loved music just as much as drawing or painting, and when I began in junior high I got to know other people who also were into music, and not people into drawing or anything like that. So it’s just stayed that way. Some of the people I have known briefly during my education for example have been way to “arty” for me, always talking about their “art” and how intellectual they are. That becomes too hypocritical for me. I feel like an outsider myself so I guess I’m not the right person to give a good answer to your question.
Are there any last comments you would like to make to your adoring fans and worshipping art groupies? Heh heh.
I truly wonder if anyone would care to read this entire interview. At least it was purifying for me to write all this… Well, if anyone is interested in our work, feel free to contact me on kim@trineogkim.no, or take a look at our work on www.trineogkim.no.
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